Malcolm X wrote in his autobiography that he could not take seriously someone who did not wear a watch. He denied respect to anyone without respect for the value of Time. Extreme, yet his belief is a powerful one and he speaks, in this case, for much of Western society.
By contrast, nearly all the interviews that follow express views that are in direct opposition to the idea of Time as a concept at all, let alone the subtle emphasis we often place on watches, punctuality, and accomplishment.
The five Native Americans and three non-natives I interviewed at the Springfield (Oregon) Filbert Festival in late August expressed a variety of opinions when asked about their theories of Time. However, most tracked their personal journeys using something other than a watch, appointment book, or anything else labeled indispensable in popular thinking. And almost everyone saw a clock as a limitation when applied to their lives.
Yet Malcolm and I choose to live in a more compulsive world.
I view neither belief as superior, but, as a member of the occasionally-consumed-by-time group, I do find myself toting a full schedule and, although infrequently, a frenzied state of mind. The words to follow are an excellent reminder that, no matter what I do, the day will progress at its own pace and I would do just as well to enjoy the transitions.
I tried to choose these people from crowds at random, but I know my own preferences and prejudices were involved in their selection. Nevertheless, they were all asked the same questions and I did my best not to lead anyone to an answer.
I hope the interviews speak for themselves, but I am unable to resist interpretation; I was amazed at how profound many of the conversations turned once I began asking simple questions. The topic, it seems, seduces the philosophic. Maybe that is because both use and views of Time provide an insight into the most basic tenets of culture and existence. The transition from "Grandchildren" (particularly those yet to be born) to "The State of the World" is easily made...
Frank Merrill--Karuk Nation (Northern California). Elder, Spiritual Leader, Coordinator for Native Programming at Lane Community College (Eugene, OR).
I arrived at the festival during the morning of what would become a hot day. The drumming drew my attention because I had come to interview Native people. I sat in the shade to listen and watch. Frank spoke for the group of people on the stage and the dancers below, who ranged from dark-skinned with black hair to fair-skinned and blonde. He talked with a familiar Native accent. Deep and deliberate. Confident and patient. Wise.
When the dancing had finished I followed the group and approached a young man, asking about an interview. After a series of referrals, Frank made his way toward me. We soon stood talking under an oak tree, my small microphone perched awkwardly between his fingers.
I found his interpretation of my last question the most fascinating.
BH: Do you think the average human life is a long time?
FM: I think the average human life is what the Creator sent you here for. Each one of us is here for a reason; whether it's bringing humanity to each other, or bringing spiritual connection to each other, or whether we're here as a baby and gone the next day--you brought relief to that family or you brought them a message that they may have other problems in their family. So that baby may have come and gone; a short time, but that's a lifetime to that one. Some are short, some are long. I believe that the Creator gave us each a certain time that we're here.
BH: How long ago do you think the earth or the universe was created?
FM: Well, I'm not a scientific man, I don't believe in proving when the earth was made. But I believe when the Creator came here and put everything in its proper place, that He came here and gave each and every one of us--whether you're from here, whether you're from overseas or around the world--He gave us all that same connection. You make a spiritual connection with everything on Mother Earth and you can survive. We, as the two-legged ones, we broke them laws. Because we put a price tag on what He told us was a spiritual connection.
BH: How long is a long time to you?
FM: There's no long time in my life. I enjoy life as it is, or is supposed to be. So I made that spiritual connection with everything around me. When you're connected with everything--the trees, the water, the grass, the sky, the birds--everything around you has connection, and there's no length of time in that time. The time that's spent here with maybe just myself, and the grass, and the trees: it could be a long time for somebody, for me it could be a short time. So there's no way to measure time in length.
BH: Do you practice any sort of time management?
FM: I see some people measure every fifteen minutes of their life. To me life was made in a circle and that circle goes around and around. And what I miss today will come back to me tomorrow. But if you believe in a straight line then you have to keep tabs of everything because there's no end, it just keeps going and going and going. And you won't have a chance to regain that knowledge and wisdom that'll come back to you.
BH: How often do you wonder about your grandchildren, their children, and their children's children?
FM: I never to have to worry about and wonder about my grandkids because they have made the spiritual connection that I talk about. We believe we're all connected, and even if one of 'em passes on, the memories I have of that kid and what he gave me while he was here would be the same as if he was here and walking with me at all times. And that's that connection I talk about, and other people don't realize they have it until something's gone and they go into sorrow. I relive that joy that kid gave me. So my grandkids are always with me whether physical, or mental, or whatever. They're always with me. The spirits walk with me at all times.
BH: Do you feel your views of time represent your culture's views of time?
FM: In a way I do, because I believe when something has to happen, that's when it happens--whether it's good or bad, or if it's a learning process or even just passing by something. The time was meant to be that way. And the Creator guides me in the way that I keep my time and spread my time around the people. And so my time is whatever time that something needs me. And if I can give enjoyment, or just a smile, or just laughter, or just a "hello," if I can relieve a person that's going through some stressful time, then the two times are meant for each other at that moment.
Arlene Fields--Blackfoot. Artist. Mixed Native and European descent.
Arlene sat in a booth displaying an abundance and variety of crafts, and was creating beadwork when I found her. She exuded calm and spoke with quiet purpose.
BH: Do you live on a reservation?
AF: We don't live on a reservation. You know, we have our own piece of property. It's been since my great-grandmother that any of my family actually lived on a reservation, so we're kind of removed from that part.
BH: How long is a long time to you?
AF: A hundred years. Yeah, that's sorta long...[laughs]
BH: How long ago do you think the earth or the universe was created?
AF: Several million years ago.
BH: Do you manage your time in any way?
AF: I have to be able to make a living at this. I can't spend ten hours on something and sell it for $10. You know, that doesn't work. I have to have some concept of how long it takes me to make it.
BH: How often do you think about your ancestors?
AF: Every day.
BH: How often do you wonder about your grandchildren, their children, and their children's children?
AF: Every day.
BH: And what do you think about your ancestors and your family that will come after you?
AF: My ancestors, I have very much respect for them. And I think that they're guiding me in this world. And I think I will guide my children and their children's children when I pass over.
BH: Do you think the average human life is a long time?
AF: No. I'm basing that on the earth's time. So that the average human is here only the snap of a finger compared to the earth.
BH: How long do you think the human race will survive?
AF: Probably about another 200 years. As we know it today.
BH: Do you have a spiritual belief?
AF: Yes I do.
BH: Is it traditional Native American?
AF: Yes. It always has been.
BH: How do you divide your time? Do you do it by minute, hour, day, month, year...or does that not apply?
AF: It really doesn't apply: I usually don't know what day it is because I don't worry about time. I don't wear a watch because I don't want to know what time it is. Usually my husband keeps track of the weekends because we have to go out and sell, otherwise I'd probably be in trouble. [laughs]
BH: Do you feel your views of time are similar to most people's views of time?
AF: Probably not. Because I'm an artist and I don't think that artists think like other people. Because we don't let time bother us. You know, we can work on a painting and work for two days and never go to bed, never eat. Time becomes immaterial when you're working on something that has your heart that you need to put down someplace.
BH: Do you feel your views of time represent your culture's views of time?
AF: To a certain extent. You know, we have a saying in the Native American community that things run on "Indian Time." Which means that, because it's supposed to start at three o'clock, it's gonna to start when it gets ready to...we're never on time, usually. [laughs]
BH: And are you similar in that way, or not?
AF: Well, I do keep appointments, because otherwise I think it's discourteous to the people waiting for me, but other than that I don't worry about time.
Joan--Artist. African-American/Mixed descent.
I hoped to add more ethnic variety to the interviews by speaking with Joan, one of the few Black people at the festival. Her addition was more than statistical; her addition was soulful.
BH: Do you practice time management?
J: Time is not important to me. It could take me ten minutes to make a piece of jewelry, it could take me six minutes. I don't wear a watch because I don't want to know what time it is; I don't really care.
BH: Do you ever think about your ancestors?
J: No, not really.
BH: Do you ever think about your descendants? Your grandchildren, their children...?
J: All the time. I have a three-month-old granddaughter now. I think about her all the time. I'd love to win the Lotto, buy a big house, and have a party with everyone there.
BH: What about your relatives yet to be born?
J: I love 'em. I love 'em all.
BH: Do your views reflect most people's views of time?
J: No, most people waste their time. They sit around twiddlin' their thumbs, drinking, and doing narcotics. I don't do any of that.
BH: Do your views of time reflect your culture's views of time?
J: I'm Heinz 57, baby. I've got all kinds of blood in me. You can't say my views are like anyone else's. You can't say I've got a typical black person's views.
Randy Akins--Winnebago, Wisconsin. Truck Driver. Mixed Native and European descent.
Frank Merrill had directed me to a man sitting under an E-Z-Up making jewelry. During the course of our conversation Randy would lean forward onto his tiny beads, distracted by his sharing and caught up in words. Then he would gesture and, unknown to him, his palms would glitter with beads pressed into his flesh.
I had asked for someone well-spoken and found someone with a lot to say. Randy was raised Anglo, mainstream-style, and did not learn he had Native blood until he was thirty years old. He looked and spoke like an average white man, but his beliefs reflected someone actively trying to integrate a set of values he had not learned as a child but felt connected to nevertheless.
RA: I'm a truck driver by trade. Do you hitchhike?
BH: Uh huh.
RA: Have you ever hitchhiked with a driver who was real tired? You should try it sometime. I drove from Seattle, Washington to Portland, Oregon. I had been up three days and have no recollection of driving from Seattle to Portland. In between Seattle and Portland I called my father-in-law and put 150 gallons of fuel in my truck and don't remember it.
BH:...Speaking of time...
RA:...It was all gone!
BH: Do you manage your time in any way?
RA: No. I have to get up at a certain time to go to work, but outside of that whatever happens, it comes along and that's the time to be doing it. Pow Wows are a good example because Pow Wows never start on time. They say: "Well, we'll start at 6:30," so plan on 7:30, maybe 8:00. But I've never seen a Pow Wow start on time. I've seen them end because of the pressure from the outside community, because the society says: "Well, after 11:00 you can't make a lot of this loud noise." But if you go out in some of the places they'll drum all night long. So, where's your conception of time there? There's none. It's whatever is convenient for you.
You're dictated by certain times of the day. A good example might be sunrise, if you don't have electricity and whatnot--if you stay in a teepee or lodge--when it's dark it's time to go to bed. When it's light it's time to get up and do something. Middle of the day, you're hungry. So the dictates of the natural cycle, which I guess would be a form of time, would be about the only management we have. We don't really go by time. It's kind of a drag to go by time.
BH: Do you think that's more of a personal choice you've made or does that come from your upbringing, and your culture, and your native roots?
RA: I'd say it has to come from my roots, my culture. My upbringing: 6:30 you had to be up, 7:30 you had to be at school, and then you were dictated through the school day. Very regimented, you couldn't break that regimen or you got in trouble. When I was in the service it was very regimented. But overall I've tried to stay with the natural time cycle. I guess, you know, a rhythm within your body: you know when you're hungry, you know when you're tired, you know when you're thirsty. If you look, everything you do is a time thing. Us talking, you took the time out. But did you take time out of your day or did you take time out of my day?
BH: Both.
RA: Not really, 'cause I enjoy talking...[laughs]
BH: Do you think that your views represent the views of your culture? Do you think that you're pretty typical...your perspective of time?
RA: Prior to the coming of the Europeans all our basic time was the four seasons. Or along the coast: when the salmon were runnin', when the salmon weren't runnin'. You know, certain times of the year. Every tribe has its own time system, but it's just natural, it's not: "Well, it's 12:30 and thirty seconds right now." When the deer are in rut, that's when you don't hunt. Because they're out there trying to get a mate. You try and wait 'til after the rut. 'Cause meat doesn't taste good on a deer during the rut, no it doesn't. Or elk, same thing. So it's a more natural rhythm. Calendars, if you look at calendars per se, that's a learned thing because we didn't have calendars. When Blackhawk was here, when the Prophet was here, when Chief Seattle was here, that's what they based their time on. So I would say by and large my views are typical.
BH: Do you think the average human life is a long time?
RA: I think if I live to be seventy-five or three quarters of a century I'll be very lucky. I wouldn't want to live much beyond that, because then you're living into your grandchildren's time. If I see my children's children grow up, my grandchildren, I'll be very happy. To see great-grandchildren, well: maybe, maybe not. I would choose not to, because my time here is done. I've done what I've set out to do. I raised good kids, good citizens, and they're doin' the same. Your kids are what your time legacy is.
BH: How so?
RA: Well, whatever you teach a child, your child--not what society teaches them, but what you teach them--is going to continue on down through the generations. What society teaches 'em changes every decade. [laughs] Comes and goes. But what I teach them is moral values, good character traits and whatnot. That stays with them, and they pass that down to their kids.
BH: How long do you think the human race will survive?
RA: 'Til Grandmother or Grandfather is tired of 'em. When you start saving endangered species, what you're doing is you're taking a self-preservation attitude. You save the Spotted Owl, you're actually saving human kind. We could live as long as the dinosaurs or as brief as a mayfly. When Mother Nature is tired of us, she'll get rid of us. Look what she did with the dinosaurs. We've had five major extinctions on this planet where 99.9 percent of life is erased. And there's few species that survived it. Cockroaches survived it; are they worried about whether they're going to die out or not? No.
BH: How long ago do you think the Earth or the universe was created?
RA: Well if you go back to my legends within my tribe, especially within my clan, there were four wolves that came out of the Great Lakes. The water was always here and then the four wolves come out and started my clan...
BH: Is it not a matter of time?
RA: No, I don't think it is...If you go scientific; if you go by what popular belief is; if you go by Native American beliefs...It's just an opinion, actually. It's your own personal opinion. How old do you think the earth is? I can give you "scientific proof" of how old it is but...
BH: Scientists say five billion years, but...
RA: And within that five billion years you've got, what, 240 million years ago to sixty-four million years ago the dinosaurs ruled? Man's only been here a little less than a million years if you go scientifically. I don't really care...
BH: How do you divide your time? Do you do it by minute or hour or day or month, or is it not even about that to you?
RA: It's not even about that. It's whatever "She" tells me. [laughs] When you work you have to divide your time. You divide your time by what society tells you to, the dominant society. I don't set down and say: "Well, by five o'clock today I should have made $1,000 and each hour I work is worth this much money." I don't know how to answer that question. I guess I don't divide my days up. You just get up, go do whatever you have to do, and you go home. [laughs] I do have hunting season or fishing season. I don't know how to divide it.
BH: How often do you think about your ancestors?
RA: A lot. Especially after I've gotten older. I think about how they would have done things. If you compare the two lifestyles--today's society with my ancestors' society--it's just as complex, the interactions within societal individuals. But their needs were a lot simpler. You weren't made to think you needed the car, or the Sony, or any of that other stuff. Now you're made to feel you need all these things. And you can't take these things with you. And it all boils down to: When you die, how are you going to go? When they put you in the ground, are you going to have clothes on or clothes off? Well, if you think about it, how'd you come into this world?
BH: Naked.
RA: Why are you going to go out in a tuxedo? [laughs] Why do you need all the things? It makes life easier in this society, but in other societies it doesn't. I could live quite nicely if I could just do my beadwork within the Native American community. Because it's not a matter of dollars, it's not a matter of who has the most of this [indicates his beads]. You create your own nook or niche, and there you are. If you're a good storyteller, they'll pay you for stories. You know, they won't pay you in cash per se, but you'll get a place to stay and whatnot.
BH: How often do you wonder about your grandchildren, their children, and their children's children?
RA: Where I worry about the human race: Now, my kids shouldn't have to pay for what I have done in this world. And my grandkids should not have to pay for it either. It's become such a vicious cycle. And it's just feeding on itself and so many places are dying and depressed. A good example is if you look at the Southern Oregon coast: for years they logged there, right? And now the great-grandchildren of the people that did that are paying the cost of that. So what will their children have or their grandchildren have? Nothin'. They won't have the quality of life they have here now. What will your children have as a quality of life here in Eugene? Fifteen years ago here in Eugene: 65-75,000 people...fifteen years ago. Now you're up to almost 200,000...So, do I worry about grandchildren? Yeah, I worry about it and I wonder about it. I know they'll have the culture and they'll have all the right stuff they'll need, but outside of that I worry about what society's going to do to them.
BH: How long do you think is a long time?
RA: I think a human life span is a long time. How old are you?
BH: Twenty-two.
RA: And in twenty-two years you've seen quite a change in the world. And I've seen the changes. So I would consider a hundred years, which is a century, is a long time. I can't picture myself living beyond a hundred years; I don't want to live beyond a hundred years. Seventy-five years would be nice...100 years would be terrible.
Pauline--Referral Coordinator with managed medical care. European descent.
When I pulled out the microphone and showed it to Pauline, I thought the interview, which hadn't started anyhow, was over. She gasped. The reason it progressed was her friends' insistence.
BH: Do you practice time management?
P: Yes. If I have a lot of appointments or if I need to remember something. Sometimes I keep lists. But I'm not so busy that I just can't keep it in my head, usually.
BH: How do you most commonly divide your time? By minute, hour, or day, or season, or year?
P: Oh gosh. Probably day.
BH: What do you think is a long time?
P: Well that depends on what you're doing. A long time could be fifty years, a long time could be a couple hours, it just depends on what you're doing.
BH: Do you think the average human life is a long time?
P: Not long enough.
BH: How long do you think the human race will survive?
P: I'd say thousands or millions of years.
BH: How old do you think the earth is?
P: I don't know--tens of millions of years. I think it's just been here always.
BH: Do you ever think about your ancestors?
P: Yes.
BH: Do you ever think about the people that have your blood, your descendants, the people that aren't alive right now?
P: Yes.
BH: What do you think about those two groups? I'm sure it's different, but...
P: Descendants, I worry about what their life will be like in the future...What kind of a world they'll have to live in. I think about that. I hope that it'll be good.
And ancestors, I sometimes wonder what life was like for them. I don't know...Not sure what else to say about that.
BH: I think those are all my questions.
P: Oh, good.
Thomas Sumiall Little Crow--Comanche and Cherokee. Florence, OR. Retired. Mixed Native and European descent.
I looked through the collection of Native American booths with the intention of finding someone who might otherwise get overlooked. Wheelchair-bound and wearing a five o'clock shadow, Thomas was a vendor displaying dream catchers and other Native standards. He talked with half a smile and when he spoke about his great-grandfather his eyes shone.
His wife stood behind him and never said a word while I was there. But when her husband spoke of their grandchildren she proudly pointed to a dream catcher and prodded him to explain it had been made by their grandson.
BH: Did you grow up on a reservation?
TSLC: No, I grew up on a ranch--my grandmother's ranch. My great-grandfather came to the ranch in 1946 from Fort Sill. He was alive when I was small and he taught me things that were traditional, and I learned a lot of things from him--silverwork. Just glad that he was alive until 1956. And I wore a path out to his teepee about a mile and a half away. I spent many nights listening to his stories. He was with Quanah Parker on the last big raids into Texas in 1875. He took me out and showed me things: where campsites were, where Comanche battle sites were.
BH: Do you manage your time in any way?
TSLC: Oh yeah. I have certain times that I do work in. And certain times that I do carvings. I do chokers. After the Pow Wows I work hard to get my stock back up for the next one.
BH: How long is a long time to you?
TSLC: Twenty, thirty years...
BH: How do you most commonly divide your time? Do you do it by season, by minute, hour, day, year...?
TSLC: By season. I don't wear a watch, I don't care about telling time. I work 'til I feel like I'm ready to quit: that's it. If I wanna go fishin', I'll pick up my pole and go fishin'.
BH: Do you think the average human life is a long time?
TSLC: My great-grandfather: 115. Great-grandmother: 112. Grandma: 102. And I'm pushing sixty-one. Do I look like I'm sixty-one?
BH: So, do you think it's a long time, a human life?
TSLC: Well, my great-grandfather's was a long time, yeah. A long time.
BH: Do you think your views of time are similar to most Americans' views of time?
TSLC: I don't think so. They go by the minute, I go by the year or longer. To me, they're runnin' around like a chicken with their head cut off, workin' for that almighty dollar, and going: "Oh, I've got to go. I'm late." [laughs]
BH: Do you feel like your views of time represent your culture, as in your Native culture?
TSLC: Yeah, I think so. To them, if we're going to have a dance, there's no set time that they're going to have the dance. They'll have it when they feel like having it.
BH: How long ago do you think the earth or the universe was created?
TSLC: Oh, gee. Millions of years ago. That's a long time. [laughs]
BH: How long do you think the human race will survive?
TSLC: If they don't straighten up they might not survive too much longer. Lotta things they're doin' wrong: pollution, war, the United States trying to be policemen to the world. Nah, that's not right--mind your own business.
BH: How often do you think about your ancestors?
TSLC: All the time. My great-grandfather talks to me when I'm working on pipes. He tells me what the stone says, how I'm going to make it. I just work 'til it comes out.
Christian Hill--City Government Reporter, Springfield News (Springfield, OR). European descent.
At a certain point I felt I had talked only with people who had uncommon views of Time. I needed to find someone who was "average." Christian seemed to fit the description. He was trying to give away free newspapers and raffle off $100 in groceries.
Whatever average is, Christian might be it. And if so, he proves how insightful and free-thinking average people are.
During our talk, to his right sat a fellow newspaper peddler: an outgoing teenager who talked about his Christian (as in Jesus) heavy-metal band and the neon orange pants they wore on stage.
BH: Do you manage your time?
CH: Yes. As a newspaper reporter it's an important component. It doesn't always work that well, at least for me I guess.
BH: How do you divide your time? By minute, hour, day, week, month, year, season?
CH: Usually hourly. If I go to a meeting it's two hours, three hours. If I have to get up and prepare myself it's an hour and a half.
BH: What do you think is a long time?
CH: That's definitely changed for me as I've gotten older. When I was younger, waiting two weeks for Christmas seemed like an eternity.
Working as a reporter, a week just flies by. My grandfather said: "As we get older time seems to fly by because we do the same tasks over and over. When we were younger everything was new--it seemed to take longer." I think he had a good point.
BH: Do you think a human life is a long time?
CH: Yeah. It's always funny, you hear these people say: "I'd like to live forever." But seventy, eighty years is a long time. It gives you the time to do what you need to do. You only have so much time on this planet and you don't get it back.
BH: How long ago do you think the earth was created?
CH: Interesting question...There's been this whole argument between creation and evolution. I don't know, I'd say 500 million years. It's been a long time. I've never really been spiritual. In high school I learned biology; I have a lot of friends who are very religious and believe in creationism. I tend to believe in evolution--nothing's wrong with the other one either.
BH: How long do you think the human race will survive?
CH: If they start taking their environment they won't last that long. I don't know, but I hope it's an outside cause rather than us destroying our resources. I'm definitely not an environmental activist but there definitely need to be [environmental] safeguards.
BH: Do you think your views of time are similar to most people's views of time?
CH: No, I don't. Every individual has their own sense of time. It has to do with their background. Everybody's sense of time is as unique as they are.
BH: Do you ever think about your ancestors?
CH: Hmmm, not really. I think about my grandparents, but beyond that not really. A lot of people get into genealogy and tracing their family tree, but I've never really been into that.
BH: Do you ever think about your children, your children's children, and their children's children?
CH: I'm at that point of thinking about having kids. I watch the news and see school shootings, and, as I mentioned, the environment. I think it's each generation's responsibility to leave the next generation better than they had.
BH: How would you define "better"? More materially blessed, a safer world...?
CH: Personal happiness. When we work for preparing the earth for the next generation it's going to be easier to buy a house, a clean environment, less crime. Materialism is the antithesis of what we should be working for.
William Merrill (Frank's son)--Karuk Nation (Northern California). Eugene, OR. Mixed Native and European descent.
I first saw William dressed in full regalia, pacing around the crowd during the dances. A dozen feathers hung at an angle over his face and he regularly tipped his head back to see under them. He reminded me of a big cat nervously establishing territory or assessing a rival. He was young and lean and obviously took pride and pleasure in the performance.
When I first asked if I could talk with him he answered: "Why not, it's a free country, ain't it?" and began laughing hysterically through an almost toothless mouth. Transcribing the other interviews, I often heard William's laughter in the background.
Initially I wondered what kind of response I would get to my questions. Later, listening to the tape, I was incredibly surprised at the insight he possessed. I felt the full impact of William's statements when he spoke of his own encounters with Time and how deeply the subject had influenced his life. His remarks, in my opinion, sum up the reason for these interviews.
BH: Do you think the average human life is a long time?
WM: Yeah, if you live your life right. If you give people honor and respect and treat people the way you want to be treated your life will go a lot longer than what it is if you treat people wrong. This is what my grandparents taught me: if you treat people with honor and respect your life goes smoothly and it goes in a nice row so you'll live longer and fulfill your destiny because you lived your life where it wasn't so forceful. And if you live your life where you're into drugs and alcohol too much you end up dying earlier. When you do things in a proper way and get things properly from the Mother Earth your life will go longer and further.
BH: Do you manage your time in any way, keep track of your time?
WM: I tried. I went to Lane Community College [in Eugene, OR] and they taught me how to do time-consuming things where you write it in a book, and it didn't work for me because all the elders send people to me to make things, and I put people on the dance floor, and I help the little ones out. And it was hard for me to keep time with that book. Yeah, my classes fit in, but when it came time to make things or help the little ones out I didn't have the time any more 'cause I was tryin' to go by a book. But when I don't go by that book and when I just go for it I get everything done that's supposed to be done in that day. But if I put it on a piece of paper I miss maybe ten or twenty percent of my stuff--I forgot all what was on that paper. We don't go in order, we always just do what you need to do to get it done, and you don't have an order about it.
BH: Do you feel your views of time are similar to your culture's views of time?
WM: Yeah. We believe that when we show up, that's the time when we're supposed to be there. That's why it's hard when you have a schedule for the Native people, because we were taught there isn't such a thing as time--you're on time all the time, 'cause when it's your time to be there Grandfather's going to have you be there. When I go to work I don't watch the clock like other people--they want to watch the clock, because they want to make sure they don't work more than they have to. I always was taught that you work and you know inside when it's time to quit. You set your own time clock. These are the ways we were taught about time.
BH: Do you think your views of time are similar to American society's views of time?
WM: No. They want you on time for everything. You can't be late. If you're late for work so many times you're going to get fired, and that's the American way. They've got that clock. They think everybody should be on this time clock all the time. When you're on a time clock all the time you really don't have a life.
With today's society, with jobs, they hire people because they look decent, but if you don't, you don't get hired. It's the same with time, you know. You shouldn't look at people in any different way because their time is different. You shouldn't fire people because they believe time differently. But a lot of people were raised by a clock. Native people, we wake up, and that's our time clock, that's when we start our day. American society, or the European way, they all want you to be there at certain times or you don't accomplish anything, you know. If you're not at work on time after so long you get a blue slip, then pink slip, and then you're fired. And it's hard for Native American people sometimes because we're so used to not having a clock. But we've got two societies; we've got to live both of 'em. When you're trying to teach the young the native way, you've also got to teach 'em the European way because if we don't teach them that they're going to lose the focus of time. Like I had. I lost the focus of time. I don't believe in time. When I try to believe in it, it doesn't work for me. But if I just let it go, it works better.
BH: I'm curious about the two cultures. When you were growing up, did your grandfather or your parents teach you that one view was better than another?
WM: No. When I was growin' up, we just knew when it was time to get up, time to go do our chores. When we got up we went straight to the bean fields or we went straight to whatever we had to do to make our money, because that is the way we were raised. And I wish that our people would teach the kids more about the time. With work, start them out young, teach them how to mow lawns or whatever so they'll learn that value of time. Because time, nowadays, is valuable.
We don't have all the time in the world anymore. You don't know if you're going to walk down the street and get shot. A long time ago, time wasn't too bad--you could just go live it. Like I got raised, you just live your life day by day and wake up and go. But now, we can't do that because time is valuable. You don't know how long you're going to be on this earth. You might be someone that everybody's going to need to talk to or see, so that time is valuable to you. So you've got to live your life and learn how to work with that time. And that's why the Indian people are mixed up in two worlds: we're mixed up in the European society and we're mixed up in the Indian way. I would love just to live this way [the festival way] all the time and not have any worries, you know. But you can't, because in today's society you've got to work, you've got to have money, and you've got to have focus on time. Because if you don't, you'll always be late for everything you go to.
Before, when we used to do this Pow Wow here, we didn't have set times. And this year we have set times, and we're supposed to be on the stage for only forty-five minutes at a time. And it makes it hard for us because we're used to talking about it [the dancing] so people know what's going on. So we go out there and explain it--instead of just going out there and dancing--because some people might not understand. And it's hard when you've got a set time, because Native people never were taught time. We always were taught: "Time just goes, you just let it go." And, then when it's over, it's time for the next time. And this is the way we were raised. But when you live in this society you have to learn the other way too. And if you don't have both ways you won't live in today's society.
BH: How often do you think about your ancestors?
WM: I'm constantly praying about 'em. I'm constantly doing stuff with 'em. Before I do anything...Every morning I wake up, I smudge and pray to the Grandfather and Grandmother Earth for having us here. If She wasn't here, we wouldn't be here. And see, a lot of people forget to pray for Her. If She wasn't here we wouldn't have any place to walk on. So I'm constantly with my culture, with my ancestors. I believe if I keep them here all the time I'm going to be a better person.
BH: How long do you think the human race will survive?
WM: Well, all my life my grandma told me I was in a dream world and everything I make is in a dream world. In my dreams I've been seeing, it's pretty scary. When I was a kid about twelve years old I had a dream. I told my grandma before she passed over and she said: "Your dream will come true." Now the dream is starting to come true. And if this dream comes true, this world's only going to be here for three more years. I'm hopin' it won't come true because everybody gets put in camps like they did the Jews. They split people up. In this dream I wake up in sweat; it's the only dream I freak out on. I got rid of it when I was young, and now it's coming back strong. I believe in my dreams.
My dream is so scary because I see the world going underwater, I see the big storms coming, I see the big floods. And we're already in that area; we're already in that time. Grandmother Earth's been calling out, trying to get help for the last twenty-five centuries, no one's listening to Her. That's why we're having the biggest earthquakes and the biggest tidal waves ever 'cause She's been trying to get 'em to listen and no one's listening. So pretty soon, everything that's in the Bible ('cause I read it when I was younger) is coming true right now. In my dreams is what's been in that Bible. And what's so weird: before I read that Bible I had these dreams. I talk to elders, I talk to young people, and I talk to people that had dreams like me and they see the same thing I do.
So, in my dreams the world's only here for three more years. And there's certain people that aren't going to live: the ones that are rich, that don't care for the land, they're all going to go. Because they care about nothin' but themselves. The ones who care about the people, care about the land, they're going to be here. Grandmother and Grandfather's going to keep 'em here because they need to bring the land back. They're the ones that are going to survive. And this is what I see in my dreams. In my heart I believe it's comin'. Soon.
Brad Horn is a writer, photographer, and adventurer with a fondness for the spoken word. He is currently living at Lost Valley Educational Center and is avoiding group singalongs whenever possible. You can reach him at [email protected].
©1999 Talking Leaves
Winter 2000
Volume 9, Number 3
Human Time, Natural Time